From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) Subject: Re: The Bulgars are Bulgars (Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars) Date: 12 May 1999 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <3738d562.124684026@news.yale.edu> References: <36ca073a.16343620@news.yale.edu> <36cca3ed.14676934@news.yale.edu> <36cca75c.15555467@news.yale.edu> <36cf2980.190197920@news.yale.edu> <36dee7fa.108219411@news.yale.edu> <36e40f21.4849643@news.yale.edu> <7c6hs4$va@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36f6aeef.439178515@news.yale.edu> <7dajnt$ssk$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <7ei51h$4m5$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <370cf95d.8677457@news.yale.edu> <7en884$1t8@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3712427B.DA4346AA@mbay.net> <3713a994.660219@news.yale.edu> <371BFCD7.98263C22@montclair.edu> <372220bb.143446995@news.yale.edu> <37226EDB.7038A129@montclair.edu> <7fuohl$ori@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <372f5c62.91986990@news.yale.edu> <372f5cbe.92079743@news.yale.edu> <7gp50a$cct@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3734b8cd.146733852@news.yale.edu> <3736019e.9033128@news.yale.edu> <7h8v0l$fmg@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3738ca86.121904158@news.yale.edu> Organization: Yale University Newsgroups: sci.lang On Wed, 12 May 1999 00:42:54 GMT, cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) wrote: > >chalk it off to nostratic studies. > >>What is the origin of these iranian ordinal suffixes -m, etc. and the >>similar to them danube bulgar -em, -om ("vechem", "tutom") and volga >>bulgar/chuvash -im, -em ("veshim, "pilem")? As you said the common turkic >>ordinal suffix is quite different - -inchi. Dobrev mentions that L. > >perhaps not that different, see below. > >>Benzing (1959) already proposed that "the bulgar suffixes are from the > >that's certainly a possiblity that I had mentioned. it seems to be >difficult to find the origin of them. > >>persian -um" but there is some confusion because later he introduces menges (p. 118, turkic lang...) refers to this but rejects it. >>some paleoasiatic and samojed ordinal suffixes -imdi, -emesh and says > >in turkic -nti (rare). > >this may be represented in danubebulghar by -ti (for 5) and tum (for >8). > >>that "the chuvash ordinal suffix -mesh is identical with the paleoasiatic >>-mesh used by the Enisey ostjaks to form ordinals". Also he found some > >-$ is generally a foreign sound in chuvash, but s' isn't and may >represent turkic c, . the turkic sufixes may be compound and -n > -m >is found for the chuvash group. volga has -m, -nc, , inc,i, -n$ and >-n$i and one case of -$. so they may be explained either within turkic >or as a loan from somewhere. > >tu"rku"t had first -nc, which later became -nc,i >