From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) Subject: Re: The Bulgars are Bulgars (Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars) Date: 10 May 1999 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <3736755f.35175279@news.yale.edu> References: <36ca073a.16343620@news.yale.edu> <36cca3ed.14676934@news.yale.edu> <36cca75c.15555467@news.yale.edu> <36cf2980.190197920@news.yale.edu> <36dee7fa.108219411@news.yale.edu> <36e40f21.4849643@news.yale.edu> <7c6hs4$va@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36f6aeef.439178515@news.yale.edu> <7dajnt$ssk$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <7ei51h$4m5$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <370cf95d.8677457@news.yale.edu> <7en884$1t8@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3712427B.DA4346AA@mbay.net> <3713a994.660219@news.yale.edu> <371BFCD7.98263C22@montclair.edu> <372220bb.143446995@news.yale.edu> <37226EDB.7038A129@montclair.edu> <7fuohl$ori@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <372f5c62.91986990@news.yale.edu> <372f5cbe.92079743@news.yale.edu> <7gp50a$cct@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3734b8cd.146733852@news.yale.edu> <3736019e.9033128@news.yale.edu> Organization: Yale University Newsgroups: sci.lang On Sun, 09 May 1999 21:44:35 GMT, cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) wrote: >On Sat, 08 May 1999 22:23:41 GMT cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) >wrote: > > >then enielem as "11th". normally bir + ordinal suffix >would be used, not a derivative of "il". >secondly, this is how later turkic langauges represented >"11": on bir, litt. "ten one". however, old turkic >(tu"rku"T) had the pattern bir yigirmi + ordinal suffix, >i.e. "11" was bir yigirmi, litt. one twenty (!). >except for xalac, (which preserves the tu"rku"t pattern >and has other archaicisms) all current turkic languages >have the pattern "on bir" (i.e. ten one), including >chuvash. it should be noted that a (european) hunnic >name was interpreted as oniki ("ten two") "twelve", see maenchen-helfen 'the world of the huns", p. 388-389, where this is rejected on other grounds. (this book has an interesting analysis of names, some relevant to bulghars). >like the modern pattern (number names are found in >turkic). OTOH at least at the time of the inscriptions >volgabulghar also had the current simpler system, found >in such words as wa:n sekir "18" (turkish on sekiz, >"ten eight"). > >