From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
Subject: Re: The Bulgars are Bulgars (Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars)
Date: 08 May 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <3734b8cd.146733852@news.yale.edu>
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Organization: Yale University
Newsgroups: sci.lang


I recieved the following reply from Vassil Karloukovski:

Cluster User wrote: wrote:

> anyway, did -r turkic ordinalia leave any impression on you? the error
> about asparukh notwithstanding, they were impressive in terms of the
> turkic theory.

yes, probably phonetically, but do they satisfy the records of the
nominalia?

BTW, about this "alem" (first) you had some doubts. Dobrev has: "The
"pamirian" "alem" (alam, olam) and "tvirem" (tijorem, tiram, diverem)
denoted the beginning and the end of the harvest, correspondingly. Z.
Lenz in "Zeitrechnung im Nuristan. Berlin, 1938, had that the
"pamirians" (I wonder whether he means the nuristani) celebrated the
New year twice - as "Nauruz-i-olam" (initial New Year) and, the
second festival - "Nauruz-i-tiramokh" (literally "New year in the
month of the end of the harvest", i.e. Autumn New Year.) Besides the
pamirians, a similar term for the month when the harvest is completed
is found among the neighbouring dardic peoples. Among them one of the
months is called "diver" and it is regarded as particularly important
as at that time the harvesters return from their summer camps."

Dobrev also cites some sumero-accadian "alejn" (first, initial),
assyro-babylonian "ejlul" (ejl-ul, first month), and for "tiramokh,
direm" - some "underlying" sumerian "tibiru" (to finish, to complete),
"*tiviren" (final, last), etc., but this is from his early (1991)
book. Later, he changed some of his interpretations and also stopped
digging so deep.