From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars
Date: 24 Apr 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <3722233d.144089539@news.yale.edu>
References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <371fb5a6.150957194@news.yale.edu> <7fpbqa$umb@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <7fqpna$7pa$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3720f38e.7491121@news.yale.edu>
Organization: Yale University
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang

On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:27:52 GMT, cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:45:55 +0100, "Stephan Nikolov"
><stephan.nikolov@history.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>In my view the Latin Caesar got the meaning "emperor" (military title, popular
>>among the legions all along the Rhine and the Danube limes) quite early and
>>trough the Germanic and
>>Gothic mercenaries became kaiser/ kaisar in Gothic and the German languages. It
>>was from there the title came to Old Church Slavonic in central/south eastern
>>Europe and then went to Russia. Ivan Grozni should have heard the title while
>>listening to Slavonic Liturgies long before he even thought of waging war
>>against the Kazan khanate.
>
>at any rate "oxford eng. dict. - tsar" mentions ts'sar' for 11th.
>cent. russian.
>

again, Stephan Nikolov warned me that "They are refering to
Svjatoslavov Izbornik 1073, which is copy of the Miscelany of Simeon
of Bulgaria, done at least a century earler."

so it is in a russian translation of a slavonic text, which ivan
grosny or his entourage would have heard about.

(hope I got it right!)

>>
>>I see difficulties chesare to become tzjasar^, without the medium of a "kentum"
>>form.
>>
>>SN
>>
>