From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars Date: 23 Apr 1999 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <3720e610.4037605@news.yale.edu> References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <370296ad.69443734@news.yale.edu> <7dvofs$ai0@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <370a6f59.1892451@news.yale.edu> <7efi7l$trh$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <370e77ea.60462860@news.yale.edu> <371e6235.18266886@news.yale.edu> Organization: Yale University Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang vassil karloukovski communicatred to me: >another word given by ibn-Fadlan is SIDZHU, a sweet drink he was given by the >volga b. Dobrev has as "the most direct analogy the pamirian drink SICHIN, >SICIN (Ja, page 242) whic was given to guests". ["Ja" should be some Jazguljami turkic also has su"c,in= to take pleasure in (medium voice, su"c,i= to be sweet; kashgari) >dictionary I gather, there is some confusion as the abbreviation "Ja" is explained >as "Russian-Japanese dictionary" at the end of the book...] su"c,u" (fadlan) < turkic su":c,ig. tu"ku"t for "sweet" ka$g. for wine or sweet; "wine" in some later sources. fadlan describes the drink as a wine made of honey, "mead". it is mentioned in "chuvash studies" in connection with the loss of velars in chuvash. in the modern turkic languages it survives in uzbek suc,uk and turkmen su"yci "sweet" and in ottoman turkish su"cu" "wine" (a swell as su"cu"k = sweet, both in sami, 1901) see clauson. (oguz, i.e. turkmen and osman, loses -g as well) it is a well rooted word in turkic, although now displaced. >about the two types of wood - khalandzh and Khadank in ibn-fadlan. Khalandzh is xadang was discussed before. it is argued by reasons of geography to have come into persian via turkic. in turkic it is old. qadI*ng*, qa*dh*I*ng* . in osman it survives as qayIn with some shift of meaing to another species. it is used as an example by kashgari to illustrate the sound changes of -*dh*- in various turkic languages and thus is an old word in turkic. the volgabulghar example is discussed in "chuvash studies" in connection with turkic q- which in volgabulghar (later chuvash) becomes x- (as well as in early turkic loans in persian) >mentioned as type of wood used for making decorations (boxes for jewelry, for >example) => it was most probably some kind of birch. And KHALJASI is the name >of the Carelian birch used by some people of the Volga region. (no ref.) the two words seem to be confused in the sources. >The second tree - the Khadank was known to be used in the production of arrow, >called in Persia Tir-i-khadank, thus it was probably some type of decideous >tree. And in the Pamirs KHADA is the common nmae of the decideous trees. >AVUS - the wax, exported by the volga b., Information of Makhmud Kashgari, who >mentioned this non-turkic word. Similar word preserved in chuvash as well as in >ossetian, where it is AUZ. yes. it is also found in qychaq balauz (honey wax, i..e. bee's wax) and auz. clauson connects it with russian vosk (wax - now that I think of it probably cognate?). thsu it is loanword in turkic and confined to the northwest. >Now, more goods which were exported by them: >- the persian, north-afghanistan MUZA-I-BULGAR, "filigree from Bulgar" in Encyclopedie >de l'islam, V. I, 1346. >- BULGAR (russian), BULGARA, BULKHOR, BULIGAAR (persian, tadzhik, uzbek, tuvin, mogol) >= the processes horse leather, "Russian leather". Widelt spread, even in italian: >"THe leather Bulgaro has its origin from the kingdom of Bulgar on Volga... It is red in >colour, because during its processing willow of birch was used. (GDLI, II, p. 438) >> - the persian, north-afghanistan MUZA-I-BULGAR, "filigree from Bulgar" in >Encyclopedie >> de l'islam, V. I, 1346. mu"za-i bul*gh*a:r; mu"za meaning "boot" in persian >Sorry, it is "persian. a type of golden filigree, sold in Persia by tradsman >from V.B. >[EDI, I, p. 997]." EDI again isn't explained! >also >CHARM-I-BULGAR - a type of medicine for wounds, still used in northern >Afghanistan, in >the regions of Balkh. (Information of prof. P. Koledarov collected during his >visit >there). c,arm is gievn for "leather' in persian. these are descriptive names given by the persian buyers