From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars Date: 17 Apr 1999 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <3717dfd1.43241958@news.yale.edu> References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <370e76ba.60158954@news.yale.edu> <7enbsd$cm7@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> Organization: Yale University Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang On 10 Apr 1999 11:15:25 GMT, e.karloukovski@uea.ac.uk (Vassil Karloukovski) wrote: > > >there still remains to be proven r-turkic was brought exactly by the >bulgars and not by the accompanying them tribes - the Suvars/Chuvash >(the Sabirs of southern Russia, <-> Siberia), the Barsils/Bersula, the >Essegels (also found in Hungary/Transylvania), the Burtas, etc. > >>>yet no mention of the alans and As (speaking an east iranian lanugae >>>and presumabely close to that of dobrev's iranic bulghars) . these >>>people the arabs had heard of. >> >>I would like to know what dobrev's answers to these points are. > > >Yes, it would be probably helpful to compare the arabic accounts of the >alans and the bulgars. Dobrev hasn't treated this question. BTW, the >arab accounts in my previous post were from one book of Atanas Stamatov. > > I just founds such a discussion in studia orientalia I (budapest - 1961 I think) J. Harmata, the language of the iranian tribes in south russia << It was Zeki Validi who first succeeded in discovering Chorasmian texts in any quantity and who found a passage in Bi:ru:ni: (in the Introduction to the tajdid niha:ya:t al-ama:kin) which seems to be of decisive importance in forming a judgement about the language of teh Alans. According to Validi teh passage in Bi:ru:ni: informs us that "the Alans or A:s. had formerly lived, together with the Pechenegs, around th elower reaches of the Amu-darya (the Uzboy), and later, after the river had changed its course, they migrated to the coast of the Sea of the Khazars"; Bi:ru:ni: also telss us that "the language of these Alans is a compound Chorasmian and Pecheneg-Turkish". ... >> the historical error abouit the pechenegs aside, and leaving aside the question of the relation between alanian ansd ossetian (which is basically one of th efine points argued in the article) this would tend to show an awarness (biruni was a kwarezmian) of the east-iranain nature of alanic. the lack of reference to the bulghars, are lack of any analogous statment on bulghar thus stand out. you might want to look at the article, there is a refernce to an iranian name similar to asparukh (it may even be that). >VK >