From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars
Date: 11 Apr 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <3710f6a3.75936420@news.yale.edu>
References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <370d1b3e.17350739@news.yale.edu> <7en7q2$1t8@cpca3.uea.ac.uk>
Organization: Yale University
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang

On 09 Feb 1999 Vassil Karloukovski wrote:

>In article <36bf474d.11742705@news.yale.edu>, cluster.user@yale.edu says...
>>
>>On 8 Feb 1999 16:07:41 GMT, e.karloukovski@uea.ac.uk (Vassil
>>Karloukovski) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>As far as I know the turkic cyclic calendars were lunar and required the
>>>insertion of an additional thirteenth month every three years. Thus the
>>>positions of the months were not fixed and they could even change their
>>>places (?).

>>that would be the chinese calendar, which is luni-solar, and which the
>>turkic calender has obvious affinities with. where did you get your
>>information?

>from one work of Peter Dobrev who in his turn cites a work of Ivan Dobrev
>("The position of the zodiacal symbols in the Chronicle of 1073 AD,
>Starobylgarska kultura, 1975, 5). Ivan Dobrev has given an example where
>the fourth month "törtünchi ai" comes at the tenth place, the third month
>"üchinchi ai" comes eleventh, and the seventh month "jätinchi ai" comes
>twelfth.

this is al-biruni's order. he also has a note that he is not well
informed about them (and obviously he can't count in turkish!)

>That the bulgar calendar was lunar and turkic was proposed by V. Zlatarski,
>but you are right about the solar-lunar calendar, I checked another reference. -
>Most of the researchers had equated the bulgar calendar to the turkic solar-

bazin has some texts in tu"rku"t that show that the months followed
the lunations - at least for the tu"rku"t. kashgari's calender, which
is at a later date, seems solar.

>lunar calendars. A proper reference here would be: O. Pritsak, Die bulgarische
>Fürstenliste und die Sprache der Protobulgaren, Ural-Altaische Bibliothek,
>I, Wiesbaden, 1955, 1-102.

>Still, the point is that the bulgar calendar was probably solar, because the
>bulgarian folk festivals which are identified to have come from the proto-
>bulgarians - Todorovden (horse races on 03.03), Ignazhden (22.12), etc.,
>have fixed dates.

>Regards,
>Vassil K.