From: e.karloukovski@uea.ac.uk (Vassil Karloukovski) Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars Date: 24 Feb 1999 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <7b1t4h$44h@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36D37742.345C@pop.uky.edu> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Organization: University of East Anglia, Norwich, U.K. Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang In article <36D37742.345C@pop.uky.edu>, rtsatt01@pop.uky.edu says... >This seems like as good a place as any to interject this. >The following was posted to dejanews.comm.taotalk >by zhoubu@aol.com . It is a news article from the 2/18/99 >L.A. Times. It seems evidence is "cropping up" that indicates >a "Asian melting pot". I would be interested in reading comments. > >Here is the content of the post: > >" Title: "Tales Woven by Fabrics" >Subtile: "Clothing and ("anglo/Celtic" nomadic) mummies preserved >for 4,000 years in China suggests that links between East and >West began 1,500 years earlier than thought. Yes, I would also want to ask the Celticits whether ideas about the eventual eastern origin for the Celts has have been advanced and whether they have any merits. Were there any linguistical data and studies in this direction? I asking this having im mind the odd "Celtic" translations of Dobrev of some old Bulgar inscriptions. In most cases he relies on (eastern) Iranian (or eastern Caucasian) but for some words both Iranian and Celtic parallels are found: both the Iranian "hulburae" (protection cover) and the Celtic "hlubram" (canopy) probably correspond to the old Bulgar "hl(o)ubrin", mentioned in a list of armaments; to the Bulgar "kosr" - the Iranian "kasr" (temple, church) and the Celtic "kasl" (castle); to "san" - the Iranian "shun" (shining) and the Celtic sun, san (sun, star); to "tvir" (four) - the Celtic "teoir" and the Iranian "zfir"; to "hos" - the Celtic "hius" (sacred, magic), etc. Isn't then Ok for the translator of inscriptions in one unknown language (Bulgar) to rely on the material of other IE languages (say, Celtic) in the cases when Iranian parallels have not been found? Especially having in mind that the Pamirian l-s (which are probably the closest to Bulgar) are poorly studied, spoken by few thousands of people forced to a refuge high in the mountains who may have not preserved the whole original vocabulary? Here are the words of Bulgar which were translated from Celtic: knish - the Celtic knith (seed, growth) Uo - Jo (Jupiter, Celt.) kuisi - kuisi (a form, a model) kuth - kuth (rear, hidden) tih - tigh (cloister) brei - bre (height, high place) li - li (oath), olh - olh (a sign), ..stist - istis (to conquer) tigjuba - tigijow (peace), and several other words. + the similarities between Celtic and the (mathematically) reconstructed Bulgar numbers "el" (1), "tvir" (4), "sheht" (6), "es" (8), etc. And, besides the lexis, some common grammatical features could be looked for as well. As, for example, Dobrev did, correlating the Bulgarian preposition for possession "na" = Engl. "to", which is unusual in Slavic context, to a similar preposition "na" in some pamirian dialects. What is the situation with Celtic and has anybody attempted to do such comparisons to eastern Iranian? Or to Bulgarian for that matter? Regards, Vassil K.