From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars
Date: 09 Feb 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <36c0be5b.7038981@news.yale.edu>
References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36bf474d.11742705@news.yale.edu> <79q8cv$k9p@cpca3.uea.ac.uk>
Organization: Yale University
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang

On 9 Feb 1999 21:13:03 GMT, e.karloukovski@uea.ac.uk (Vassil
Karloukovski) wrote:

>In article <36bf474d.11742705@news.yale.edu>, cluster.user@yale.edu says...
>>
>>On 8 Feb 1999 16:07:41 GMT, e.karloukovski@uea.ac.uk (Vassil
>>Karloukovski) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>As far as I know the turkic cyclic calendars were lunar and required the
>>>insertion of an additional thirteenth month every three years. Thus the 
>>>positions of the months were not fixed and they could even change their
>>>places (?).
>
>>that would be the chinese calendar, which is luni-solar, and which the
>>turkic calender has obvious affinities with. where did you get your
>>information?
>
>
>from one work of Peter Dobrev who in his turn cites a work of Ivan Dobrev 
>("The position of the zodiacal symbols in the Chronicle of 1073 AD, 
>Starobylgarska kultura, 1975, 5). Ivan Dobrev has given an example where
>the fourth month "törtünchi ai" comes at the tenth place, the third month 
>"üchinchi ai" comes eleventh, and the seventh month "jätinchi ai" comes 
>twelfth.

BTW using common turkic ordinals when talking about the bolgars is
misleading anyway since these were never claimed for bolgarian. the
reconstructions follow chuvash or those of the volga inscriptions
which are close to it.

>
>That the bulgar calendar was lunar and turkic was proposed by V. Zlatarski, 
>but you are right about the solar-lunar calendar, I checked another reference. -
>Most of the researchers had equated the bulgar calendar to the turkic solar-
>lunar calendars. A proper reference here would be: O. Pritsak, Die bulgarische 
>Fürstenliste und die Sprache der Protobulgaren, Ural-Altaische Bibliothek, 
>I, Wiesbaden, 1955, 1-102.

I'll check it. menges in 1951 says that boodberg will be tackling the
problem of the nominalia, do you know if he published and where?

>
>Still, the point is that the bulgar calendar was probably solar, because the
>bulgarian folk festivals which are identified to have come from the proto-
>bulgarians - Todorovden (horse races on 03.03), Ignazhden (22.12), etc., 
>have fixed dates. 
>
>
>Regards,
>Vassil K.
>