From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars Date: 05 May 1999 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <372f8c51.30626748@news.yale.edu> References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <372D87F2.7A65@worldnet.att.net> <7gmcsd$3tn@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> Organization: Yale University Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang On 07 Apr 1999 cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) wrote: >from previous discussion: >>Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars >>Date: 02 Mar 1999 00:00:00 GMT >>From: e.karloukovski@uea.ac.uk (Vassil Karloukovski) >>Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang >>In article <36db0d1c.70930572@news.yale.edu>, cluster.user@yale.edu says... >>>On 11 Feb 1999 Vassil Karloukovski wrote: >>... >>>>'child, descendant', etc. Thas is, Avitohol corresponds to the persian name of >>>>Avituh, meaning 'doe's child'. This interpretation is supported by one XIV c. >>> >>>reference? >>sorry, no reference was given by Dobrev. The persian examples were rather >>accessory to the main story and he only mentiones "the ancient persian >>Avituh from the old iranian "avi" (doe), and "tuh" - a persian form of the >>sanscrit "tuk" (descendant, son). Avituh was also called one of the early >>followers of Christianity, mentioned in the Xth c. Sabine book." >>>the from without the -l baffles me. >>> >>>from "persian" (unqualified) I understand "new persian" i.e. the >>>post-islamic literary language. >>> >>>>lithuanian chronicle, which narrates the miraculous ways in which the progenito >>>>rs >... >>Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars >>Date: 01 Mar 1999 00:00:00 GMT >>From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) >>Organization: Yale University >>Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang >... >>> >>> >>>Peter Dobrev (as well as earlier researchers) have proposed iranian etymologies >>>for the name of Avitohol: from the wakhan awu, awi 'doe', the ishkashimi ahvi, >>>ahui 'doe', the farsi kabuli afi, ahu 'the same'; and the wakhan tohol, tofl >>lorimer does not list tofl for wakhi but it is probably `ar. Tifl >>(child, with emphatic t). tox@li means a young male sheep. in persian >>it is toqli:. all fine but there is a turkic angle to it (NB persian >>q). doefer lists it as turkic loanword in persian and other languages, >>found in kashgari as toqlI, 6 month old lamb. >thsi word seems to have existed in oghuric: >hung. toklyo' "year old lamb" (acc. to kakuk < * toqlIg~) >("chuvash stuides" p. 89) also interesting is mongol "calf" - tug~ul, in "secret history" tuh.ul (sinor, "altaic names for bovines", acta orientalia, XV, hung.) >perhaps pahlavi avituh was given a false etymology in a turkic - >alanic environment and connected with atilla (?) >>persian (iranian) a:hu: is well known. >>>'child, descendant', etc. Thas is, Avitohol corresponds to the persian name of >>>Avituh, meaning 'doe's child'. This interpretation is supported by one XIV c. >>>lithuanian chronicle, which narrates the miraculous ways in which the progenito >>>rs >>>of various peoples had been saved: >>> >>> " Romulus and Remus were nurtured by a she-wolf. Astiag, the king of the >>> medians, said to Gasparg, his secretary, to kill Cyrus so that he wouldn't >>> reign after him, but Gasparg took pity on him. ... _Also, the son moesian, >>> or bulgarian, was nurtured by a doe, after he was thrown in the woods to >>> die._ Paris, the son of Priam, was nurtured by a bear..." >>> >...