From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars
Date: 29 Apr 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <3728d521.12856466@news.yale.edu>
References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3718c0d8.988421@news.yale.edu> <7fhjus$h91@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3727a871.84105096@news.yale.edu>
Organization: Yale University
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang

On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:31:59 GMT, cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
wrote:

(among the words early on attributed to the volga bulghars)

>
>OTOH in his 1986 book, which has much less polemics as to turkic vs.
>iranian, dobrev cites evenki dalak (the drop of -k is expected in

apparently ttalak in lak (caucasus), as given by dobrev.

>chuvash). (I didn't check the word, anybody care to?).
>
>BTW so here's a tungus word, vassil.
>

another word that he lists with supposedly no turkic parallel is kanak
(cream) for which he has kanak (cream) for evenki (tungus). actually
the source for the word is kashgari, in which he states that the
bulghar and the arghu (among turkic people) call it qanaq while in
other turkic it is qayaq or qaynaq. actually the word survives in most
modern turkic languages, including turkish (kaymak), as qaymaq. what
is refered to is how turkic languages handled old turkic *ny*  (found
in tu"rku"t). in some it became n, others y and occassionally -yn- or
-ny-.

dobrev has saxra*dj* "goblet" (probably saxrac,) for which he gives
sax (caucasian). actually it is found as saqraq in kashgari. it is a
loan from iranian sa:xar with different turkic suffixes for common
turkic and volgabulghar (unless one assuems a copyist's error for
saqrax).

dobrev lists lav for wax (a different kind then avus), found in kash.
as la:v (a loan). I don't know the source for lav in early volga
bulghar. kat for town (source?) seems to be from kand a common loan in
turkic.

I explained xada*ng* and su"c,u": as turkic. avus seems to be a local
word of teh region. xalan*dj* (iranian) was well known in the near
east at  the time. 

there are a few wprds I didn't get a chance to look into. the one's
above (turkic or an early loan in turkic), a local loan and a well
known loan do not challenge the nature of the language as turkic.