From: e.karloukovski@uea.ac.uk (Vassil Karloukovski) Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <7g6dev$tdu@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <37228395.105363334@news.yale.edu> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Organization: University of East Anglia, Norwich, U.K. Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang In article <37228395.105363334@news.yale.edu>, cluster.user@yale.edu says... >On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:31:09 -0400, "H.M.Hubey" wrote: ... >>> if wakhi, etc. c,@rbu -> bulg. chorbadzhi, chorbadzhija (master, boss; rich >>> man), then Dobrev probably had in mind another word char, which already fell >>> off use in the 19th c. >> >>I think chorbadji is from Ottoman. It was probably a title left over > >yes. Well, I checked two turkish-english dictionaries. The first meaning is indeed "maker/seller of soup (chorba)". But after that for "chorbadzhi" there is: "(hist.) Christian noble in Turkish towns; (hist.) colonel of the Janissaries; (jok.) a non-Muslim; (sl.) boss, master". The structure of the bulg. society in the Ottoman empire was quite simple: peasants (say, >95% of the population), craft guilds (the so called esnaf) in the towns. + each village had one or more rich, distinguished people - the chorbadzhii who, together with the local priest, represented the community before the authorities. The chorbadzhii were the highest representatives one could get on a local level (no traces of aristocracy has survived in Bulgaria). So, unless the wakhi "ch@rbu" (a minor village official) is also from ottoman turkish, I don't see why it and the bulg. "chorbadzhi" couldn't be connected directly. Regards, Vassil K. >>from the olden days, like subashi (water-chief). But then is "chorba" >>Turkic? > >no.