From: "H.M.Hubey" Subject: Re: The Bulgars are Bulgars (Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars) Date: 24 Apr 1999 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <37226EDB.7038A129@montclair.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <36ca073a.16343620@news.yale.edu> <36cca3ed.14676934@news.yale.edu> <36cca75c.15555467@news.yale.edu> <36cf2980.190197920@news.yale.edu> <36dee7fa.108219411@news.yale.edu> <36e40f21.4849643@news.yale.edu> <7c6hs4$va@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36f6aeef.439178515@news.yale.edu> <7dajnt$ssk$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <7ei51h$4m5$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <370cf95d.8677457@news.yale.edu> <7en884$1t8@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3712427B.DA4346AA@mbay.net> <3713a994.660219@news.yale.edu> <371BFCD7.98263C22@montclair.edu> <372220bb.143446995@news.yale.edu> To: Cluster User X-Accept-Language: en Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com X-Trace: I6uJEGslmhmC38BMpq6atiw5bro0gqSLLs/KXO8sp2A= Organization: Montclair State University Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Apr 1999 01:19:48 GMT Newsgroups: sci.lang Cluster User wrote: > > >more examples, because 'yeri' is not too distant from "ir" and > >the initial "y" could also be hypercorrection. We'd need to look at the > > why hypercorrect? votyak was not a literary language until recently. > is the place filled with turkologists? That occurs without writing. Some native Turkish words got to look like Farsi-Arabic borrowings like elma, yare, etc. > >languages in more detail. > > always a good idea! > > there is some debate on it, but as far as I know not out > of a desire to connect it with c,iz=. sinor's proposal of > a proto-turkic s' is rejected by rona-tas, p. 135, chuvash > studies. I noticed things like this; proto-Turkic might have had only two seasons; summer-winter and the rest developed later. In Turkish the springs are borrowings ilk-bahar and son-bahar. In KB we find the seasons as kash, kIsh, cay, caz. In the Bulgar inscriptions found in the Caucasus, the word for 'year' is 'cal'. So KB cIl, Turkish yIL, and KB cash, and Turkish yash seem to be from that same word 'cal'. What separates KB and Turkish is c/y, and what separates cIl/yIl from cash/yash is basically l>sh which means that these should be in l-r Turkic instead of sh~z Turkic. I see something similar in the seasons. KIsh (winter) was time to hunker down. The word for barracks in Turkish (kIshla) likely from something like kIshlak is exactly that. The word for 'building' in Dobrev which V. Karloukov has on his webpage is 'kIshda' (d-bolgaric again). Spring would obviously be the time for them to start spreading out with their flocks, hence 'cay' (yay, yayil, yayla, yaylak). So the name of the river 'daichs' is a dead give away. Furthermore the word 'kash' (winter or fall) could easily be related to 'kar' (snow), again notice the r~z, l~sh, or l~z connections. Things don't have to be 100% regular, they never are. -- Best Regards, Mark -==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= hubeyh@montclair.edu =-=-=-= http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=