From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
Subject: Re: The Bulgars are Bulgars (Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars)
Date: 24 Apr 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <372220bb.143446995@news.yale.edu>
References: <36ca073a.16343620@news.yale.edu> <36cca3ed.14676934@news.yale.edu> <36cca75c.15555467@news.yale.edu> <36cf2980.190197920@news.yale.edu> <36dee7fa.108219411@news.yale.edu> <36e40f21.4849643@news.yale.edu> <7c6hs4$va@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36f6aeef.439178515@news.yale.edu> <7dajnt$ssk$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <7ei51h$4m5$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <370cf95d.8677457@news.yale.edu> <7en884$1t8@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3712427B.DA4346AA@mbay.net> <3713a994.660219@news.yale.edu> <371BFCD7.98263C22@montclair.edu>
Organization: Yale University
Newsgroups: sci.lang

H.M.Hubey wrote:

>
>
>Cluster User wrote:
>> 
>> >> O
>> >> turkic has native yaz= "to write", chuv. s'Ir= (hung. i'r=).
>> >>            (perhaps *ya:z=)
>> >
>> >yaz/caz likely came from Ciz/sIz  and thus likely from
>> >s'Ir.
>> 
>> there are some problems with the -i- in chuavsh and hungarian. tukic
>> -a- is frequently found as -I- in  ogur, and the hungarian example
>> with no gy- may point to an early loan and the i- may be a development
>> within hungarian. in some siberian uralic language it is yeri- "to

sorry, an uralic language of the urals, votyak.

>> draw" (NB r + palatal!) and thus it may have been y- all along.
>
>Or else the c/y split occurred a very long time ago. One would need

c- is usually secondary, as y- itself is many times a development
from others.

>more examples, because 'yeri' is not too distant from "ir" and
>the initial "y" could also be hypercorrection. We'd need to look at the

why hypercorrect? votyak was not a literary language until recently.
is the place filled with turkologists?

>languages in more detail.

always a good idea!

there is some debate on it, but as far as I know not out 
of a desire to connect it with c,iz=. sinor's proposal of 
a proto-turkic s' is rejected by rona-tas, p. 135, chuvash
studies.

>
>-- 
>Best Regards,
>Mark
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>hubeyh@montclair.edu =-=-=-= http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey
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>
>