From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars Date: 15 Apr 1999 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <37166e8a.98992173@news.yale.edu> References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <370296ad.69443734@news.yale.edu> <7dvofs$ai0@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <370a6f59.1892451@news.yale.edu> <7efi7l$trh$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <370e77ea.60462860@news.yale.edu> Organization: Yale University Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang On Fri, 09 Apr 1999 21:59:32 GMT, cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User) wrote: >vassil karloukovski communicated to me: > >> >>************************************ >>In the Nominalia about Kormisosh is said: "This prince replaced/changed >>the clan Doulo, that is Vihtoun." >> >>The word Vihtoun was unclear, but Dobrev links it to the persian >>(middle-perisan?) "vih" (right, noble), "vih den" (goof faith, right >>faith) [Sredne-iranskie jazIki, p. 56]. Also the pamirian "vih" (wise) >>and "tun" (clan). >> >>That is Kormisosh usurpted the power from its rightful holders - the Dulo >>clan. Apparently a degradation in the central authority followed, because >>after Kormisosh several khans reigned for few years, some of them traitors: >>khan Vineh reigned for 7 years after which he was deposed by one party of >>boljars; next, khan Telec ruled for 3 years and died in a battle agains >>the byzantines; khan Sabin was accused in treason and found refuge in >>Constantinople, Oumor, another Byzantine protege reinged for 40 days >>only, after him another traitor - Pagan, was killed by the boilas, >>followed by 10 years of intercine fights and decline. >> >>About the clan of Vokil (Oukil) there was also some iranian correspondence, >>can't remember it now. Also about the ruling clan Doulo - it mean >>"ruler" or "appointed to rule", something of that kind. > >yes. hung. gyula. this seems to be the accepted meaning, but I don't >know its etymology. in hungarian there is the meaning of torch and gets connected with things to do fire. this is turkic yula (torch, lamp). it was laso the name of a group of old hungraian nobilty. this is turkic yula (with a usual phonetic change). the connection with "leader" would be obvious. the turkic element in danube bulghar seems to be conservative in preserving d- for turkic y- (which may represent other sounds as well). this is known from a few examples like "dilom." > >>