From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
Subject: Re: The Bulgars are Bulgars (Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars)
Date: 12 Apr 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <37125dcb.73203120@news.yale.edu>
References: <36ca073a.16343620@news.yale.edu> <36cca3ed.14676934@news.yale.edu> <36cca75c.15555467@news.yale.edu> <36cf2980.190197920@news.yale.edu> <36dee7fa.108219411@news.yale.edu> <36e40f21.4849643@news.yale.edu> <7c6hs4$va@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36f6aeef.439178515@news.yale.edu> <7dajnt$ssk$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <7ei51h$4m5$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <370e87fa.33003186@news.yale.edu> <370e9c08.38137358@news.yale.edu> <370e9c4b.38204164@news.yale.edu> <7eneea$cm7@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <37125d1d.73029030@news.yale.edu>
Organization: Yale University
Newsgroups: sci.lang

On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:54:31 GMT, cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
wrote:

>On 10 Apr 1999 11:59:06 GMT, e.karloukovski@uea.ac.uk (Vassil
>Karloukovski) wrote:

>>
>>WARAN - a gigantic lizard, WARENDAK - long, snake-like [SarIkol'sko-
>

fro varendak russian sveshivajushchijsja, visjashchij is given.

>waran is a dialect variant of arabic waral, a monitor lizard
>(nile, egypt). hence the modern name of the genus varanus. truely
>large monitors (2.4 - 3m) are found in southeast asia, australia
>and pacific islands, where the largest is known as the komodo
>dragon. it was called so because europeans at first thought
>the animal described by the local people was legendary.
>
>varendak (sarikoli distiguishes between w and v) means "dangling, 
>hanging"
>
>> russkij slovar'. T.M. Pakhalina, M., 1971, p. 186]
>>VAIRENI - a dragon (Prakrit), VAIRA - dangerous, VARUNA - the god-protector
>> of the water, "The Encompasser of the World" [Sanscrit dictionary, A. 
>> McDonell, Oxford, 1976, pp. 270-272]
>>
>
>dobrev also makes a polemic that the word used is not "lun" actually 
>in tu"rku"t and later it was lu: < chin. lu*ng* (apparently the 
>loss of *ng* happened in a middle chinese dialect). kashgari gives 
>na:g or ne:g (the /g/ is fronted) < sans. na:ga "snake", but
>also used for sueprnatural beings and snake gods. translated
>by kashagri as "crocodile". luy < lu: apparently was also
>interpreted by the mongols as "crocodile". large reptiles
>are unkown in the altaic homeland, so loanwords for these
>are not surprising.
>
>>
>>Dobrev also had the dardic PEREN (dragon), proto-indian (?) PERAN (large,
>
>dobrev also refered to tajik. in the russian tajik dictionary there 
>is "susmori perron" (i.e. su:sma:r-i perra:n or pera:n) for russian 
>"drakon" (i.e. dragon), "zoological". apparently russians refer to a 
>flying lizard as such (said so explicitly in a russian - uzbek
>dictionary).
>perra:n (or pera:n) is persian for "flying" and su:sma:r is a faty

e represents short a, frequently fronted. the dardic word may
represent the persian / tajik word.

>lizard with a serpentine head (sanskrit s'is'ma:ra ; su:s in persian
>used for its fat, ma:r is snake in persian)
>
>>long), the chuvash VEREM (long), the sumero-accadian UR, JURNU (dragon), 
>
>chuvash va~ra~m is an expected cognate of common turkic uzun, uzIn.
>
>both words are found in the volgabulghar name refered to:
>ewren awlI wurum alIb (so spelled; or alib). the son of ewren,
>wurum alib. readily recognisable as common turkic

arabic waw is used for w/v.

>evren og~lI uzun alp (m. turk. og~lu), litt. the son of "dragon",

modern turkish "evren" is a neologism with the meaning "universe"
based on the earlier "firmament". it has in recent years become a
proper name as well. some political commentators nevertheless reminded
the public about the meaning "dragon, snake" found in old ottoman.

>"tall brave". hungarian apparently also has the underlying
>verb, o''r= (i.e. o":r=) in o''ro"l= (to grind) and o"rve'ny
>(whirlpool) but here o":is regarded as an internal hungarian
>development from *ewu"
>
>see chuvash studies p. 149-150.
>
>>the wide spread of this and other calendar terms of the nominalia pointing 
>>to the ancient chartacter of the cyclic calendar.
>>
>
>well, animal names tend to get around. in this case there seems to be
>a lot of coincidence at work.
>
>>
>>VK
>>
>>
>>
>