From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars
Date: 25 Mar 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <36fac983.6248364@news.yale.edu>
References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36effb24.440413110@news.yale.edu> <7cp58m$2de@cpca3.uea.ac.uk>
Organization: Yale University
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang

On 17 Mar 1999 21:02:14 GMT, e.karloukovski@uea.ac.uk (Vassil
Karloukovski) wrote:

>In article <36effb24.440413110@news.yale.edu>, cluster.user@yale.edu says...
>>Vassil Karloukovski wrote:
>
>>>- 976 AD - a short reign of car Roman Shishman, the second son of Peter. 
>>>  976 was the year of the mouse ("somor" in the nominalia, "sh@shi" in 
>>>  chuvash, probably from another bulgar form - "s@sel"), and "man" means 
>>
>>*sh*@*sh*i is related to turkic sIc,g~an (in some sIc,qan og~uz
>>sIc,an) sIc,= means to defacate (-g~an, og~uz -an participle suffix).
>>(chuvash etym. dict.)
>>
>>>  "a season, month" in pamirian, thus supposedly leading to "Shishman".
>>
>>I have wondered at this name. there was another shishman, of coman
>>origin, much later.
>
>
>the last dynasty of the Second kingdom (XII-XIV cc.) was that of the Shishmans 
>(the last car Ivan Shishman - beheaded on 03.06.1395 by the ottoman turks) and
>for it indeed kumanic origin is proposed. However, I am not sure kuman influence 
>can be claimed as early as 976.

how about pecheneg? works just as well.

>
> 976 is rather late, with possible coman,
>>pecheneg etc. influence. $i$man < sI$man means "fat" in -z turkic
>>(if so, it can't be oghur).
>...