From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
Subject: Re: The Bulgars are Bulgars (Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars)
Date: 27 Feb 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <36d74900.88096305@news.yale.edu>
References: <36ca073a.16343620@news.yale.edu> <36cca3ed.14676934@news.yale.edu> <36ccb13d.18084634@news.yale.edu> <7ap23l$klu@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36d0a349.273703124@news.yale.edu>
Organization: Yale University
Newsgroups: sci.lang

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 00:23:17 GMT, cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
wrote:


>>...
>>>> Volga Bulgar word            Closest analogies
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> KHALDZHA - the lakes near   Khalidzh - an inlet, a pool,
>>>> the summer palace of the    a lake in some Pamirian
>>>> king of the Volga Bulgars   languages
>>>> Almus in 921 AD.
>>>
>>>
>>>xali:*dj* is found in arabic (gulf, thus inlet). if that
>>>is the word, then xal*dj*a must come from somewhere else.
>>
>>
>>KHALDZHA is mentioned by Ibn-Fadlan: "And when we met the king, we 
>>found he had stopped for a rest and temporary residence in the so 
>>called Khaldzha, in fact this region was situated between three 

the arabic edition I looked at did not have the voweling, except for
the last one which is an a/e. probably fadlan's original manuscript
contained the voweling, but either the modern editor made a mistake or
the scribe whose copy cam down to us made an ommission.

>>lakes - one small and two big ones, whose bottoms are unreachable. 
>>Between this place and the enormous river that flows towards the 
>>country of the khazars and is known under the name of Atil (Volga), 
>>the distance was one farsah."
>>
>>Could it be that "Khaldzha" was Ibn-Fadlan's own translation of the 
>>name of the place - "The Lakes", "Lake district", or something similar?
>
>I doubt it! there is no such word in arabic. it's just the etymology 
>that is suspicious. the turkic etymology *might* be from ko":l (lake)
>+ -*ch*e (diminutive suffix, happens to be found in iranian as well).
>I don't know how ko":l is found in -r turkic, but I know that at least
>some o": might be rendered as a: or sound like it. or ... I don't
>know.
>
>
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>Vassil K.
>>
>