From: cluster.user@yale.edu (Cluster User)
Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars
Date: 12 Feb 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <36c4bdd2.67559906@news.yale.edu>
References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <3744d12a.1873763068@news.wxs.nl> <796m95$eq2@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <375c0ea6.1954957123@news.wxs.nl> <79fo99$qkl@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <79skrj$u81@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <79vl9f$dub@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <7a05ai$45s$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Organization: Yale University
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang

On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 02:57:26 GMT, stephan.nikolov@history.ox.ac.uk
wrote:

> ...

>was written. It is clear indeed that there are two tipes of time in the
>document:"mythological time" and "historical" time. I personally do not have
>any difficulties with an idea that a charismatic clan trying to establish
>their power over other clans (who might well have been of various cultural
>and linguistic characteristics) and claiming for the purpose Attilide origin
>(I guess Pritsak is close to such an understanding). The empire of Attila was
>perfectly ligitimate in the world of Eurasia, so descendancy from Ernach
>(these third most beloved sons !!!) would not do any harm but rather
>facilitate the claims of Dulo for superiority over the Slavs in southeastern
>Europe vis-a-vis the Avars for instance, who were dwelling precisely in the
>territory where was the core of Attila's empire. A reading of Nicephoros and

I would tend to go along with the above.

>Theophanes that Kuvratos (Kurt) rebelled precisely against the Avars in the
>early 630's would indirectly support such a notion.
>
>And it seems that Kuvratos(Kurt) would have been intelligent enough to employ
>such a legent for this guy seems to have been well travelled and to have seen
>and heard things in Constantinople as we hear from the Greek sources and we
>can infer from Malaya Pereschepina findings (I have my doubts about John of
>Nikiu's story, though; prefer rather Nicephoros).
>
>As for the wolf story, Dobrev might eventually turn correct although this

I gather that the emphasis is on the doe according to dobrev

>story is not unknown for other people than the "Iranians" either. It seems
>that the Hsiung-nus had the same legend (she-wolf nursed an abandoned infant
>at the time when a crow was soaring above him (I have always thought the the
>Bulgarian poet Hr. Botev was a genius. Well, he certainly is;). Note also:
>"The origin of Chingis qayan (y here substitutes for the gamma sound) was a
>bluish wolf which was born having [his] destiny from Heaven above. His spouse
>was a fallow doe" (Cf. Cleaves (transl), The Secter History of the Mongols,
>p. 1).
>
>I am obviously NOT advocating Turkic origin or whatsoever. I am just pointing
>out certain similarities
>
>Stephan Nikolov
>
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