From: "H.M.Hubey" Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars Date: 04 Feb 1999 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <36B95B9A.ECF1ACC6@montclair.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <369E3BE1.5C45@sbu.ac.uk> <77li2j$qi0$1@whisper.globalserve.net> <369F52FE.2B6@sbu.ac.uk> <77rc86$auj$1@brokaw.wa.com> <36A444B3.F3B70F1C@alum.mit.edu.-> <7827sb$269$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36A52D70.9E372DD2@alum.mit.edu.-> <36A556AB.9927BD29@montclair.edu> <36a63533.58309714@news.yale.edu> <7866ud$i9m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <36cdb21e.883120019@news.wxs.nl> <36A7FCC8.79790A6B@earthlink.net> <36d77e23.1000882888@news.wxs.nl> <36a8d455.81661202@news.yale.edu> <78pl3c$84o@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b0dc2f.3434839@news.yale.edu> <78v30o$vl6@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b34d7c.60430113@news.yale.edu> <794e84$4iq@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b61035.22226830@news.yale.edu> <797ik4$jo4@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36b7878f.9848962@news.yale.edu> <36B7D43B.FC0EA9C0@montclair.edu> <79abe0$nr@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com X-Trace: nbf65ossDdLrfsSxbQh2s4PkstLojHoXY4ynUt2u6Ps= Organization: Montclair State University Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: hubeyh@montclair.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Feb 1999 08:29:42 GMT Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.lang Vassil Karloukovski wrote: > > >Lang says that "bolghar" means "mixed". > > Lang also says that in the days of Paul the Deacon the bulgars under the > langobards still spoke both latin and their turkic language when, in fact, > the word turkic here was added by Lang himself. > > Miziev says that it comes > >from "bulghak-ar". > > and other theories derive it from the mongolian name of some rodent, from > some old turkic balug (town) + -ar, etc. Or who knows what the italian 'bal' is the root of words having to do with 'mud'. It also means 'honey' presumably because of their consistency. Bejing was known as 'khanbalik' (the place of the khan). The word 'balik' here is from the same root as 'balug'. The word 'bulgha' means 'to mix' even today in Karachay-Balkar. That is why people say it means "mixed peoples". encyclopaedia say on the question... All these etymologies look quite useless > until the language they must based on is known. It is Turkic obviously. > > Balkars of the North Caucasus may be related > >although it is a Kipchak language. They have preserved "bulgarisms". > >They have been there a long time apparently. The river Malka passes > >thru their territories and they call themselves "malkar". > > only one of the tribes is calles malkar, after the name of the gorge they > live in: > > ' Among some peoples of the North Caucasian region there was a lack of > national consiousness to the extent that the various tribes of those > peoples did not even have a collective name for themselves as an ethnic > group (...). The BALKARS, for example, did not have a collective name > for themselves in the pre-Revolutionary times, but rather referred to > themselves by tribes, _whose names corresponded to the gorges_ in which > they lived [MARKARLI, KHOLANI, BIZINGICHI, CHEGEMLI and BAKSANCHI]. They obviously did have a name for themselves, and so did the Karachays. This kind of nonsense has been written by Russian chauvinists and communists because they had to show everyone how the big brother brought civilization to the world. Everyone has a name. > The only name the Balkars used as a commomn means of self-designation > was "Taulu", which means "Mountainer", and which they also applied to That is right. They also call themselves Taulu. Meanwhile it is easy enough to see that back in 1600s an Italian missionary who went thru there clearly calls them 'Caracioli' (karachayli). > the Karachai, Ossetians, and other Caucasian peoples. The term 'Balkar' > was applied to them by the Kabards and the Russians as a collective > ethnic term.' [ R. Wixman, Language aspects of ethnic patterns and > processes in the North Caucasus, Univ. of Chicago, 1980, Res. paper > No 191]. I have read Wixman's book and unfortunately it suffers from the disinformation spread by you know who. They simply distinguished themselves from others who were plains people. The Kabards also called them Tatar Kushxa (mountain Tatars). Russians called all the muslim Caucasians "Tatar", that includes Chechens, Ingush, Daghestanis etc. > > Regards, > Vassil K. > > >-- > >Best Regards, > >Mark > >-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >hubeyh@montclair.edu =-=-=-= http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -- Best Regards, Mark -==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= hubeyh@montclair.edu =-=-=-= http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=