From: mcv@wxs.nl (Miguel Carrasquer Vidal)
Subject: Re: Caucasoid Turks/Bulgars
Date: 01 Feb 1999 00:00:00 GMT
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On 1 Feb 1999 14:37:56 GMT, e.karloukovski@uea.ac.uk (Vassil
Karloukovski) wrote:

>The evidence for an iranian influence 
>on the Mari agricultural terminology is massive. It would be too far-fetched 
>to suppose they were transmitted by some -r turkic migration as almost all of
>the Mari words for the cereals and other cultures have (specifically) pamirian 
>cognates:
>
> culture     Mari          Pamirian 
>
> wheat      shidan       zindan, shedim  (Shugnani, Sarikoli)  vs. the old iranian GANTUMA
> barley     shozh        chushch         (Shugnani, Sarikoli)  vs. the old iranian KASAKA
> rye        urzha        jurzhājn - millet (Shugnani, Sarikoli)
> hemp       kāne         kām             (Ishkashimi, Wakhi)  
> flax       jeten/kheten ketenek
> pepper     purājs       murch           (Shugnani, Sarikoli) 
> peppermint purtnājk     pudina          (Ishkashimi, Wakhi)
> wallnut    puksh        khuvz, fuvz     (Shugnani, Sarikoli)
> dock       cikura       shukri, shiiko
> sorrel     shinchalash  shilka      
> pumpkin    kavun        kafu, kadu      (Shugnani, Sarikoli)
> mulberry   tut          tut             (Ishkashimi, Wakhi)
> peas       kushsho      krosh
>
> ploughing   kuralash     kuram - Tadzhik
> bread       s(h)ājkār    zegar, zgara - Pashto, 
> ...

Of course Uralic peoples must have been in contact with Iranians
for almost as long as we can recognize Iranian as a separate
branch of Indo-European, roughly the second millennium BC.  The
Iranian borrowings in Mari could have entered the language at any
time since that time until the predominant languages in the
steppe became Turkic and the Iranian languages became limited to
a few isolated enclaves (Ossetic in the Caucasus, Yaghnobi in
Central Asia), roughly the first millennium AD.  

It would be interesting to compare the Mari borrowings (as well
as the Ugric (Khanty-Mansi), Permic (Udmurt-Komi) and Mordvin
ones) with reconstructed (East-)Iranian and with other modern and
ancient East Iranian languages like Ossetic and Yaghnobi, or
Sogdian, Bactrian and Saka-Khotanese.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@wxs.nl
Amsterdam